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Old 04-24-2009, 12:38 PM   #58
Coldwynd
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 549
Default Re: Obama: Great President or The Greatest President?

Originally Posted by Tryst View Post
Now, the argument that because we supposedly discovered a plot with torture, therefore torture is good is not very good logic either. It is based on the assumption that under no other circumstance would we have been able to discover this plot and that this plot was in fact a real plot and not just a potential brain child, something that torture often does net as the tortured attempts to please. Finally, I would argue that losing another 3-5 thousand people in a terrorist attack is better than giving the government the ability to torture those it is able to demonize and ignore the rights of. As horrible as losing the three thousand plus on 9/11 was, how does it justify the deaths of many times that number of innocent civilians, just because they're not American? Or that more Americans have died attempting to extract so called justice than died in the actual attack.
I tend to agree with you Tryst. I presented the report as an interesting read. I firmly fall on the side of the means do not justify the ends. Nor do I agree with using Iraq as a proxy of the US for terrorist who want to attack the US (which I firmly believe was one of the reasons - unstated - that we went into Iraq). Personally, I do not want the US using "enhanced interrogation" techniques.

Many on the right will point to that report and say "see, look what we prevented." Likewise, the left will point to that report and say "look what we've become." On 9/12/01 though, I'm glad I didn't have to make the decision of waterboarding terrorist leaders versus watching planes (or worse) fly into Los Angeles, Boston, or Miami.

This is a link to an image showing the 2nd explosion at the WTC. It is still very hard to look at and I decided to link to it instead of posting it directly in the thread.
http://www.nocaptionneeded.com/wp-co...9/wtc-9-11.jpg
On 9/12, George Bush woke up having to make sure this never happened again. I don't condone everything he did, I certainly understand why he did them.
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