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Old 08-27-2011, 12:02 AM   #1
Chieling
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Hey guys!

A few of yas know this - Im working on my own MMO from the ground up. Im not part of a big corp, but this is me and a few partners building a game platform and then the game itself. we have a renderer that we have chosen, and now we are building... well..... the rest. While this means we are unfunded, it DOES mean we can make this game however we like

The reason WHY im mentioning this is because I would like to hear what people are looking for in a MMO, what would grab your interest, what would keep you playing past the first few months and what would keep you going when u hit max level.

You can answer this post if you like, or you can email me at pyoskowitz@winterleafentertainment.com

thanks for the input, itll help me see how close to "on track" that the game is going.

Chieling
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Old 08-30-2011, 12:28 PM   #2
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Hi,

While I think it's interesting that you are asking this question, what makes me wonder is how you are planning to design the tech necessary when you don't have a high level vision yet. Getting a positive churn rates is one of the most difficult challenges when making an mmo? The traditional model is to keep people interested by releasing new content and expansion packs. However this is also something that's expensive so do, so you might want to build your pipeline accordingly.

I'd advice you to take a look at what you want to make, because in this particular industry the customer does not always know what they want. Sure, they want to stay entertained. It's the how where everyone seems to disagree.
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Old 08-31-2011, 11:12 PM   #3
Chieling
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actually, we DO have a high level vision of the game itself. I just dont see a reason NOT to ask for thoughts and opinions. There are times that someone has come up with an AWESOME idea on something that we were still milling around. IMO keeping the "vision" to a small group doesnt allow for growth. that does, however, mean that I also have to know when to call it. We have a list of "locked" items that arent goin to change and a list of stuff that im still fairly open on. if someone happened to hit on one of those topics, it would give me something to think about. funny thing is, iv posted this in a couple of forums, and as opinionated as i was expecting the answers to be, i hardly ever get feedback. its all good we got plenty to do as is!
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Old 09-01-2011, 11:32 AM   #4
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I'm just going to throw some things out there, some are even problems with no proposed solution. Just my random thoughts on MMOs over the years.

Ever since EQ, it seems like MMOs don't actually 'start' until you attain max level, at which point you group up for raids. Almost everything in the games makes you want to be max level and raid, whether it's the draw of grouping with 10-20 other people or the allure of shiny purple items. Casual players don't even want to be in the mid-levels, they're just stuck there for longer. No one has ever played an MMO and thought, "wow, level 27 is amazing! Now I can [insert something cool here]!" and then stayed that level for a week or month. In every game, when you hit level 27 your only thought is, "now I just need 28 and only X more levels til max, then I can raid!" That's why crazy people play 36 hours straight through in new games, to get max level before anyone else and if the lower levels are just filler (really, you learn to play the game control/mechanic wise in the first 10-15 levels), then why even have them. Just let people start at 50 and be done with it.

If I have to zone into anything, other than a dungeon, in your game - I'll quit immediately. You should be looking at the good/bad things of existing games. If you find yourself emulating the bad, you're doing it wrong. At this point, new and original ideas for game features are hard to come by, but there is always room for improvement of some poorly implemented ones.

EQ, DaoC, AoC, WoW, WAR - all the same theme, do something different.

If your game is going to have PvP and you make it two opposing factions, I'm going to hate you. Good vs. bad is lame, the biggest ball-drop came from Warhammer. That tabletop game has around 12 races, none of which are buddy-buddy with each other. High Elves hate the Skaven that hate the Undead that hate the Lizardmen that hate the Dwarves and so on. Dual faction PvP is played out.

Done for now, back to work.
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Old 09-01-2011, 12:03 PM   #5
Chieling
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Ever since EQ,........ Just let people start at 50 and be done with it.
thats been a huge discussion actually. part of what we have been coming up (answer-wise) is content more interesting that XP grinding or quests that involve "go kill X and come back". the other part is pre-50 raids. will that work? no clue yet. does that mean that there is a huge amount of content to be created? oh yeah. while we have disucssed that, i can see WHY XP grinding or basic quests are a standard in most games. its easy and u can crank them out fast.

If I have to zone into anything, other than a dungeon, in your game - I'll quit immediately. .....but there is always room for improvement of some poorly implemented ones.
thats a hard one man.... UNFORTUNATELY thats a engine issue. if u are talking about a WoW like continuous world... man, if i could get someone to work with the engine we got an do that with it, that would be awesome. unfortunately, the world has to be broken into zones (old EQ style). thats not us.... thats an engine limitation. now, if u are talking about instancing... thats something totally different.

EQ, DaoC, AoC, WoW, WAR - all the same theme, do something different.
can u expand on that?

If your game is going to have PvP and you make it two opposing factions, ......Dual faction PvP is played out.
will it have PvP? yes. dual factions? no. 8 races, 8 factions. Does everyone hate each other.... that depends on a number of things that can be determined in game. (at least according to plan)
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Old 09-01-2011, 01:02 PM   #6
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Ever since EQ,........ Just let people start at 50 and be done with it.
thats been a huge discussion actually. part of what we have been coming up (answer-wise) is content more interesting that XP grinding or quests that involve "go kill X and come back". the other part is pre-50 raids. will that work? no clue yet. does that mean that there is a huge amount of content to be created? oh yeah. while we have disucssed that, i can see WHY XP grinding or basic quests are a standard in most games. its easy and u can crank them out fast.
I've played P&P (pen and paper) role-playing games for a long time, like D&D, and never at level 3 did I think, "wow, only 17 more levels to max and that's when the good times start!" Some P&P games don't even have leveling systems, you just gain XP that you can spend on character progression. I wonder how a game would/could work that didn't use level advancement as the first carrot on a stick. A game where when you/group/raid killed something it translated into points you could use to advance stats or buy spells or invest in alternate advancement/talents.

As for keeping it fun at all levels, that one is tough... really tough. Good luck.

If I have to zone into anything, other than a dungeon, in your game - I'll quit immediately. .....but there is always room for improvement of some poorly implemented ones.
thats a hard one man.... UNFORTUNATELY thats a engine issue. if u are talking about a WoW like continuous world... man, if i could get someone to work with the engine we got an do that with it, that would be awesome. unfortunately, the world has to be broken into zones (old EQ style). thats not us.... thats an engine limitation. now, if u are talking about instancing... thats something totally different.
Yea, like WoW. Continuous worlds are the new black. If you can help it, don't go back to plaid.

EQ, DaoC, AoC, WoW, WAR - all the same theme, do something different.
can u expand on that?
If your game is based on Warriors who are supposed to get hit in the face, because they have the most health/defense who are getting healed by Clerics/Priests standing behind them doing nothing but spamming out heals and robe-wearing casters - it's played out. Enough with the sword & sorcery, find a new genre to explore.

If your game is going to have PvP and you make it two opposing factions, ......Dual faction PvP is played out.
will it have PvP? yes. dual factions? no. 8 races, 8 factions. Does everyone hate each other.... that depends on a number of things that can be determined in game. (at least according to plan)
Good.

Also, one more thing, don't put your content on repeat. Fucking, fuck, the whole "do this raid zone, beat it, then do it again on HEROIC to really beat it for the same items" can suck a dick.
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Old 09-02-2011, 01:00 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Vendrix View Post
Ever since EQ, it seems like MMOs don't actually 'start' until you attain max level, at which point you group up for raids. Almost everything in the games makes you want to be max level and raid, whether it's the draw of grouping with 10-20 other people or the allure of shiny purple items. Casual players don't even want to be in the mid-levels, they're just stuck there for longer. No one has ever played an MMO and thought, "wow, level 27 is amazing! Now I can [insert something cool here]!" and then stayed that level for a week or month. In every game, when you hit level 27 your only thought is, "now I just need 28 and only X more levels til max, then I can raid!" That's why crazy people play 36 hours straight through in new games, to get max level before anyone else and if the lower levels are just filler (really, you learn to play the game control/mechanic wise in the first 10-15 levels), then why even have them. Just let people start at 50 and be done with it.
This a thousand times. Perhaps level-less is the way to go?
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Old 09-02-2011, 01:51 PM   #8
Chieling
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This a thousand times. Perhaps level-less is the way to go?
The issue i can see then would be how many "skill points or skill levels" you have as a determinant... Even if u dont use levels to get skill-ups, and u get skills on a "as u use them basis" then youre still having something simular to a level disparity.
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